6: OG Female Comedian, Helen Lederer

Cathy (00:02.03)

Hi everyone and welcome to the Indie Book Club which is sponsored by Inkspot Publishing and I’m really delighted today talking to Helen Lederer about her very funny memoir, Not That I’m Bitter. So Helen, can you tell us about the title first of all which is very funny knowing title and

I aimed for that. I didn’t have the title for a long time when I was, I’d written most of the book, but I didn’t have a title. And then you get obsessed about the title and then the title can become completely separate from the book, can’t it? So, but I was seeking something that had a double meaning, that was knowing that people might chuckle if they got me. And it’s like, it’s like any kind of humor, isn’t it? Because jumping.

to comedy women in print. When I did the logo for the prize for witty women, it’s a logo that is a pen, but also possibly not a pen. And sometimes you don’t want to be judgy of anyone, but you just go, comedy is a bit of a tribe. We’re all different tribes. And if somebody…

I can show the logo here if anyone is watching.

Amazing, well done. But then I know that it sounds so superior because it’s not like, you’re wrong if you don’t connect, because we all connect all the time at different things. But I suppose you have to try and if you’re writing a book, you want it to amuse, I suppose.

Cathy (01:37.262)

Which you definitely, I think you nailed it because in the book you do talk about your feeling of being quite overlooked in the whole comedy landscape, as you were really so much part of those early, those very, the alternative comedy movement. That’s why I think your title was so clever.

because you’re actually very searingly honest and you don’t spare yourself at all in this book, which is why I could never write memoir. I could never write memoir until everyone I knew was dead.

Yes, well there was still a sort of slight moment when I talked to my sister and I said, it, yes, no, that’s not, I didn’t know about you. But the thing is, why do any of us write anything? I probably won’t do a memoir again. I just reached a point in my life where I was remembering that I was a stand-up comedian and there weren’t that many stand-up women comedians at the time. That’s not why I did it, but that’s just a fact.

and I wanted to mark it for myself because in those days it was probably pre-internet that my name is so ego-driven, I’m not representing myself well. But I think I just wanted to go back and go, actually I did do that because I told myself I hadn’t done it and I’ve never had a plan and my career’s kind of gone however it’s gone. But the humour, and that’s really what we all return to, the humour is about the truth and

People tend to only laugh, I think, when they connect with the authenticity of the narrator or the comedian or the lines that being told on stage by an actor. And that varies for each audience. But I was, as somebody said, alarmingly honest. I went for the… I couldn’t… I wanted, above all, people to laugh at the absurdities of life that are also true.

Helen (03:35.566)

So it had to have truth in it, otherwise why would I have done it, you know?

Yes, exactly. actually there was a real, some of your characters, especially your stand up characters in The Girl at the Bar, for instance, a very sort of tragicomic, they’re discussing real moments of angst and insecurity, but in a very funny way. And it must be quite frustrating in the sense that, you you were 20 years ahead of shows like Fleabag, for example, and never quite got the recognition.

I did a mathematical study. Well, I think somebody probably did it for me because the girl at the bar was a character in naked video, which was a comedy sketch show that BBC Scotland did in late 80s, 90s. So that was 10 years before Bridget Jones, Helen Sinclair’s brilliant column was in the independent, which was something like 16 years before wonderful Miranda Hart driven.

woman-centered driven comedy that she wrote herself and then followed by Phoebe Wallace. So there aren’t that many, much more now. I would say in the last five, there’s been a sea change. I don’t follow it all. I’m too old. If I’m not in something, I don’t tend to watch it. So I don’t watch a lot, but that’s attempted self-deprecating joke. But I remember when I started doing the standup, there was another, were about three of us. There was French and Saunders up there in the elite.

and doing really well. And then we would, we were feminists, we’d all assess each other and somebody called me vulnerable and that really annoyed me and I put that in the, I thought, no, I get myself to the gig. drive, you know, I write my own material. We’re all very prickly, aren’t we? Prickly is not attractive or funny, but writing about something with the absurdity in it is a kind of human condition and hopefully that’s what I did. But I’m not actually bitter.

Helen (05:35.054)

I’ve been since talking about the books which I’ve been, you know, going to these lovely literary festivals and I’ve felt so warmed by the questions I get and that people were watching comedy and I had small parts in a lot of iconic programs and

Very memorable parts. They were very memorable. So for example Flossie, you know the from happy families Yes, but very you know, very memorable characters and I suppose it really helps you have those incredibly unusual eyes as well. They’re very

in the comedy, yeah.

Helen (06:13.6)

are they real and where’d you get them from? I go, don’t know, but there they are. But I think like all of us, I look back and I was very, very ambitious. I really was passionate about doing it. And I kind of marvel at that energy now, because of course I don’t have that now. And I think people tend to have that maybe in their 30s or there’s a time, isn’t there, when you really want something?

I really wanted it and it was a very intense time. It was a very naive, genuine time. And there was a lot of, know, comedy was going through bit of a change and I got, I lucked out with some gigs, I would say.

Yes, but I suppose looking at your whole career, you’ve actually been able to make a successful living out of doing something that you love. And it’s really difficult to describe any other metric by which you can define success. you know, I just think it’s a when you look at it that way. I don’t know if you’ve ever read this book. It was called The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F.

I’ve heard of that. I like that title.

Yeah, it’s actually a very interesting book by Mark Manson and your story reminded me of an anecdote he describes in this book about the lead guitarist of Metallica, Dave Mustaine, who was actually sacked from Metallica. How you get sacked from a rock band, I do not know. He set up Megadeth, which was an incredibly successful band and he sold gazillions of albums and

Helen (07:44.109)

Right. Bye.

Cathy (07:53.336)

You know, he was very influential to a lot of musicians, but he always regarded himself as a failure because whatever he’d achieved, Metallica had done 10 times better. But by any objective measure, he was an incredible success. And yet his personal metric of success was, and your story sort of reminded me a little bit of that. And I think you’re very harsh on yourself. And I hope that if you’ve had an outpouring of love and

from literary festivals and things because there’s a lot of warm affection and you are regarded as a bit of a national treasure.

I think I’m kind of low down on the Richter scale of national treasures, got quite a few. I mean, I mean that genuinely. But I think you put your finger on it. think it’s nobody chooses when they’re born, when they come in, what society is doing. But, I was around then and I did lack confidence, but that fed my comedy. So that those are traits I still have, I suppose. it’s. Pardon.

This I don’t understand.

It’s either a prerequisite or it’s an anomaly. don’t know, but maybe there’s part of me that thinks I should have pushed myself more is what I’m saying. Because after five years of doing stand-up, I got the opportunity to do BBC Radio where everyone sort of clapped when you came on stage and you didn’t even have to do anything. And I thought, this is nice. my goodness, this is nice. And there’s part of me, my colleague, friend, Jenny Eclair, she…

Helen (09:30.338)

does the stand-up, she does the tours and you look at the level and the frequency of the serious comics and I was thinking, do you know what, I really don’t want to do that and if I can do grown-up acting with the script and people being nice to you, I might just do that. I might just do that.

And who wouldn’t? mean, ultimately we’re not Maccas, are we?

But I think keeping going is an interesting one. And I would say at my very great age now, interestingly, writing a memoir, being alive with the memoir, I want to do a show next year, which would be, you know, less Q &A, but more like presenting stuff. It’s changed me because I, and it’s just worth the wait, you know, 40 years, not cocky at all, but I’m going, oh yeah, I can turn a phrase, I can go into a room of

10 people and have as good a time, well obviously it’d be nicer if there was slightly more, but you know, it’s still as worthwhile with 10 or 200 people just to not care. And the title of the book you referenced, you know, I can be irreverent. I say, the press aren’t in, are they? And I can say things like, don’t have to see myself as low status, which, you know, I did, that was my shtick. I saw myself as low status because…

the colleagues or the contemporaries or the peer group were doing extremely well at the same time. And the market forces were, if you’ve got two, three women doing the sitcoms, why would you need a fourth? It was… All that. Or not very good. know, I’ll never know. But that doesn’t matter because I’ve done what I’ve done and I’m enjoying for the first time.

Helen (11:18.606)

being with an audience now where I actually don’t have to apologize. It’s fantastic. That’s brilliant. is genuine and it can be a bit, oh, don’t feel sorry for yourself. But to have the strength after 40 years of just having fun with it, yeah, it just took me longer than most people, but it’s worth it.

So you’re just about to start rehearsals for Fawlty Towers. Can you talk about that? Are you allowed to discuss which character or that?

Yes, there are, I know there are people who actually know every episode of Fawlty Towers. This is what I’m reminded when I go around the country, people love comedy. They, you know, I watched Monty Python. I don’t know your younger than me. don’t know what, what was your

love Monty Python and I absolutely loved Fawlty Towers.

We love it. It’s our, we can watch something without our parents, you know, whatever the comedy is that connects with us is so meaningful. Well, I did see some of the Fawlty Towers. Anyway, so I played the deaf, harridan woman, Mrs. Richards, with a very unattractive woman dress on and a wig. But all the…

Cathy (12:28.694)

the one who won’t turn her hearing aid up, is that right?

Okay. So, the, when you’re not looking for work or a relationship, I always find they turn up. this did find me and, I think, why would you not do this? So, but it will be a different, I always think every time you do a new job, you might make a new friend. It still will be performing. So there’s, yeah, I do lots of different.

things that come in and I always assume everyone else is doing better than me.

Do you think you’ve reached an age now where you don’t worry about it anymore?

I’m better than I’ve ever been. not, but I still have that angsty thing. But I do think that’s part of the human condition. And if anybody knew what was going in any, you know, if I knew what was going in your brain or you knew what was, it wouldn’t be good. think we just, you know, we present to the world a face. To be funny, you have to kind of try and mine a bit more of that, you know, be a bit more honest or a bit more out there than polite society.

Helen (13:44.29)

And that’s why we need comedy, because if we were all buttoned up and repressed and following, you know, social strictures, well, we’d go nuts, wouldn’t we?

Yeah, that’s true. fact, Fawlty Towers is what I call cringe comedy. You know, where you actually have to watch through your hands sometimes because it’s so funny but so embarrassing.

Fast, but also that Basil is someone, I’m sure everyone has analysed this in modules. Trying to get somewhere and failing is actually quite funny. The desperation of the effort. And that, I suppose, is partly how I look at myself in the stand-up. cannot believe the mistakes I make, but looking back at it in wonder is quite freeing. Like, you know, the anecdotes in the book, that sounds very formulaic.

I won’t give it away, but there’s a very funny episode with a saucepan.

god, yes we can’t, yeah that’s the, well I’m glad you’re laughing. But you see younger people might perceive that in a different way because generational values discuss certain male behaviour in different ways and rightly so as we’ve evolved. yes, that, I wanted to be funny about a situation that can be interpreted by different people.

Cathy (15:04.302)

That is a perfect example of what I would call the cringe comedy. Where something’s unfolding which has a ghastly element to it but actually is.

great test. But also it does stem from again the connective factor which I think a lot of us, politeness is useful, it is the glue of society, but we also tip over into people pleasing and my obsession or people pleasing and at that time when you’re younger and saying yes is quicker than saying no and that’s controversial quite rightly. But Helen you’re

honest about it. I think a lot of women have exactly the same experiences and they’re too humiliated to discuss it. so I just think you’ve done, you know, you really have done the female race a service by talking about these things because I certainly know, you know, for my younger years, there’s some things I would never want anyone to know about. I just think that

Because actually we’re socialized as women to be polite and not to, you know, shake, to rock the boat. And it takes years and years to get over that. And, you know, maybe that’s why at age 70 you’re suddenly relaxing and enjoying your career rather than…

can’t change what happened, that’s the point. And what you can do is continue to observe and continue to find ways to be funny about it, but also to respect how we are now, admire how we’ve evolved now. even you admit, admitting there’s a value judgment, even you sharing that is finding bits about all of us that overlap.

Helen (16:51.776)

And I think that’s the joy of reading something that you can’t put down or when I wrote Losing It, my first novel, my only novel thus far, but I loved writing it because the freedom, especially in your first one, because you don’t know the pain that’s to come. It just to kind of really rummage around, like just give yourself permission to rummage around in, you know, like non-PC, yes, PC is not a good word, but go there.

just to go there and see. And then the glorious surprise is how other people love that bit.

relate to it. It’s very relatable. yes. Yeah, very interesting. Do you remember the, did you ever see any of the steptoe and son episodes where, you know, at the core of it was this ghastly, abusive relationship between father and son and yet, where the father was completely stifling his son’s ambitions and, you know, any desires to better himself and yet it was.

so excruciatingly funny, but very sad as well.

It is sad because some people have said well bits of the book are sad Because then I thought well now I understand that relationship. You know, they’re kind of trapped together aren’t they and that is awful The predictable and desperate desperate is funny desperate is funny But if you just do a list of your achievements, I don’t know there may be some memoirs There might not be much of an adventure to it

Helen (18:28.814)

And I was, I don’t think I would go that alarmingly honest again, because I am, but I am that person. wear my heart on my sleeve and then you go, ooh, you know, that kind of E-E-W, go, ooh. And I’m like, I’ve always been like that. My parents have been relieved that I’m funny. And then I’ve gone too far. And you go, I am that person that might just go too far. Like I’m great and I’m funny. And then I might just say something that.

kind of tips and everyone goes a bit quiet. So I know that I have that in myself. But I’ve just come back from Scotland, a really beautiful posh, very posh festival because of Naked Video being Scottish. And a lot of the audience were retired teachers my age. And I could say stuff and they were really on it. So I just think, let’s not judge people. You know, I’ve lived a life and

and talking about it, I just think there’s a delight in connecting with other people. But I wouldn’t, I don’t think I’d do another memoir in a hurry, you know, but it’s brought me to a state of…

You’ve told us all your secret stuff now. Although actually I’ve got to say you do a very good job of protecting those close to you. You don’t talk much about your family other than how obviously their experience of coming over as Jewish. But what I mean is you don’t talk about the personal details of your family and you don’t expose too much, which I think is very laudable because

That’s another problem with memoirs that you’re telling.

Helen (20:13.638)

you know that moment where somebody, so maybe this sounds hypocritical, but you don’t want to be negative about other people because they’re not in the room and they can’t, and why would you be? It’s actually not that funny. It’s a bit, I really liked you until you said that. It’s one of those. And I think as long as you stay in your lane and mind your lane as honestly as you can, other people are…

not bystanders, but it’s how I react to the situation. And a wonderful book, Carrie Fisher’s, her memoir. yeah. That, but another one, Wishful Drinking, I think. Now, talks, she does, because she comes from very famous family, so there are famous people in it, but it is about her. And all we can do is tell our story and other people can tell their story. And also it’s a bit unseemly.

postcards from the

Helen (21:10.83)

I’ve kind of quite solicitous about, well, that sounds too knowing and careful, but why would you say a negative thing about someone when they’re not in the room? You might as well say it to them and then try and…

And also if they can’t defend themselves, it does seem a little bit unfair.

It’s awkward. It goes awkward. It takes you away from the principle, from the concept, from the moment, I think. Because it’s just too one-dimensional to be critical of another person. Yeah.

I think you walk that tightrope very well. I just really wanted to ask you, before we talk about Quip, which I’m really interested in, this is the comedy Women in Print, how do you think, obviously the alternative comedy wave was brilliant because we were suddenly allowed to laugh about things which we never talked about before and there was a searing honesty in the… But how do you think the new woke wave has affected comedy?

Because it’s a tricky one, isn’t it? Because now we’re suddenly not allowed to laugh about things that actually are objectively, you know, maybe cruel but funny.

Helen (22:22.156)

Yes, well, I always wonder when that question is going to come up at the Literary Festival. So it’s always handy to get a of a definition about what woke is because I can never remember and I think the meaning of it changes because I think it was intended as a helpful thing. So anything that is helpful about being kinder and nicer in the world is welcome. I think you have to kind of go back to a kind of preset maybe. My response would be…

Go back to when you were in school in your class and as it happened I was quite large because I was wheezy and asthmatic and had to have injections and also I was large and I ate pastries and there were two large people but she wasn’t funny, I was. So the point is there’s always going to be someone who makes you laugh and just hold on to that. It’s the funny bone. So concentrate on the…

The funny bone is the interesting element and our society does change as it has to. So it’s not a surprise that our words change because we don’t, you know, like, I don’t know what the Tudors did for stand up or they had court gestures, didn’t they? Some of us might think that was a bit full on, a bit, you know, one dimensional, you know, I think that it’s just a whole mix about our funny bone.

recognizing somebody else’s funny bone and being part of who we are right now and having to make fun of our society because that’s all we know. We could make fun about animals, I suppose.

And actually the court jesters were the only people who were actually allowed to make fun of the king for example and they could be very close to the bone couldn’t they?

Helen (24:11.468)

And that was, maybe it was almost required. That was their outlet. So I suppose we could say we do need to laugh. I mean, I don’t laugh enough. I’m very serious today. Technical problems have made me very serious. But my favorite thing, and I don’t know what yours is, Catherine, is like just being with someone. You don’t even have to know them that well, but you’re telling them a story and they’re telling you a story that you haven’t maybe heard. And then you’re just laughing like a drain. And you just go to me.

that’s like worth all the kind of rejection letters you know.

When you’re with your girlfriends with a glass of wine and it’s hard not to.

It’s a joy. It shouldn’t be a luxury, but it is and I think we forget. And it’s easy to make fun of, I was watching a programme on catch-up yesterday, a very weird programme, concept programme, where everyone’s a virgin and they go to an island. And then you have the therapist trying to sort of enable the people for, you know, various reasons to kind of release. And of course one can make fun of all that. But equally, releasing and laughing is actually quite a good thing to do.

didn’t see that program, I saw there was a Rod Liddell did a column about it today where he is saying that, and Rod Liddell is very funny. He said that actually these ghastly therapists are, they’re like, I think he described them as like emotional vampires or something like that. And he said that,

Cathy (25:40.622)

They’re missing the point. They’re taking out all the joy and the love and the connection of sex and just making it all about as if it’s another recreational activity like yoga. know? And did you get that impression or?

I can understand that and if you write a column then to write a column about something current you’ve obviously got to find an angle like a cartoonist does but I think another way of looking at it is that maybe in some cases we need to be encouraged to release otherwise and to improve our life you know like how long we got you know what mean? I just think the value of laughing and funny books and other fellow

comedy commentators is so precious and so lovely that, you know, we want to big that up because we’ve got enough of the other stuff going on.

That is very true. So let’s talk about QUIP quickly. Why was that important to you getting that whole project off the ground and where are you with it now?

Well, thank you for asking. When I wrote Losing It, I looked around because I am that person. Are there any prizes to win? I’m told other people do think that. It’s a very vain thing to do, but I thought, and there were no prizes for witty women writers. There was one prize of which I’ve been nominated, didn’t win, but that being nominated late in life as well made me embarrassingly happy.

Helen (27:11.726)

I had had a position badge age 10 for standing up straight, but that was probably the apex of my winning anything. And so the nomination for that, and I’d been a judge on other prizes, everything came together. And it is very dangerous if you’re an ideas person like me, but I am. So I had the idea to set up Comedy Women in Print as a platform.

Criteria, what do you mean by print? Is this novels or screenplays or what’s the criterion?

At the moment it’s only novels. It’s not because other people cater for stand up and screenplay and this. And so it’s a kind of gentle woman’s agreement that so far there’s only one quip, but we’re kind of supportive of other people who are doing other stuff that is, you know, parallel. And the USP of it is a publisher this year, Hera Book Publisher, publish the winning unpublished manuscript. So therefore one, can help

unpublished writers finish a manuscript which in itself is like hurrah. So it is a meaningful prize in three tiers. Unpublished leading to being published and getting a place on an MA in Comedy at Falmouth. You meaningful prizes. Yes, very meaningful. for getting a place to do it. cost very costly. This year unpublished a cash prize from ALCS so we at least select

the most reliably uniformly agreed consummate list of witty narratives out there written by women, which is no bad thing. You go on the website and you go, I know that’s, that will be good. And then this year we’re doing self-published because we’re looking at wit and empowerment and there’s a bit of snobbery about self-published books, but it’s just a platform. You never get the right answer. You never get the best. No book prize ever ends up with the best because there is no best.

Helen (29:09.87)

because it’s words and it’s subjective, but it’s a platform that enables and celebrates witty women writing. And I do it, I have to turn myself into another kind of bossy person, which you probably heard when we were trying to make the internet work and sort of become a different kind of person to do it. So I’ll be doing that and the long list.

You’ve suddenly had to be the person to find sponsors to actually nag people to try and organize. How many years have you been going?

We’ve been doing it for eight years. This is the fifth cycle. And so I’ll be doing Fawlty Towers and Comedy Women in Print. But it is worth it because if you… We’ve created writing careers. But you do have to go for meetings and have lots of papers in your handbag and get your pen out and look quite fierce and passionate and encourage people to support it financially. I don’t obviously do it for money.

But because things cost, which is annoying.

Yes, venues and prizes and yes, absolutely.

Helen (30:15.694)

So it’s a different angle, but it’s not a bad thing to do. So if you’re doing something that isn’t bad, it’s probably best to keep at it.

I’m sure it opens lots of doors for you as well. I’m not that you would have done it for that reason, but you know, it’s.

slowly creaking doors they’re not that open I can assure you Catherine they’re not but I do like a party I do like I love people I love going out and about I do have my little business card and so it is

closer to your camera I think I still have the logo up so I will show the logo again

Comedy women in print.

Cathy (30:58.854)

I think anything that supports women, especially younger women, to get on the… I think it’s great. So we’d be happy to put something on our website about that.

Well now I’ve made a new friend in spite of my internet shortfall.

I’m a flippin’ technology, I tell you I hate it.

I kind of whimper, I cry and who am I hating? It’s a pointless source because it’s not human. But we got there in the end. I think your word independent, it’s good to be independent and do one’s own thing and big up other people. There are worse things to do.

We got there in the end.

Cathy (31:42.126)

Actually what I like about it, I didn’t realize that you were actually bringing on people who hadn’t finished their books, which I think is really important because to actually finish a book is a huge achievement and people need a lot of support to do it.

It’s a motive and then now it’s been going so long we have alumni or Sainsbury grant and so the two of the long list shortlisted winners of QUIP they run a social event and I just think actually we had one and there is to have that in common to have a passion for writing and talk about it and kind of go for that and you know that people are interested in the funny it’s not bad community you know.

It’s true. I run the, I run a short story competition. I used to do it for the Chipping Norton Literary Festival. And we’re going to do it now that that’s very sadly closed. We’re going to do our own, an Inkspot one. And there are never enough funny stories. And in fact, when they come, there’s such a pleasure because there’s so much misery out there. And a lot of writers think that they can get a shortcut to your emotional heart by writing a really miserable story about, you know,

kids dying or whatever. It’s, let me tell you, it doesn’t work. No. Write something funny instead and that works.

I know I’m delighted to wait you’ll have to we’ll have to exchange notes after this to find out what you’re doing and and cross-ponelate in some way but when you say misery I found alas I have a file called anthology of my teenage poems and I do have and when I was doing the literary festivals with losing it I actually read out and people didn’t quite know how to take it this is me not reading the room I’m much better now I’m not perfect but better

Helen (33:28.214)

And so I would read this teenage poem with drama and people kind of like slightly silenced and made to feel a bit awkward. And I used to read  my poems out in front of my parents while they were watching Ask the Family with Robert Robertson. I remember going, standing in front of the TV and just reading quite a serious poem and then going, hmm, and then me leaving. And you just go, so I don’t always read the room.

but maybe that’s okay. But misery poems are hilarious to look back on.

But you’ll see this is another difference. I could never read out my teenage poems. probably birthed them years ago. But the fact that you can do that has led to your career.

It’s odd. Why would anyone choose to put themselves through that? There is something odd and unusual and then, you know, reflecting on the better gigs and the worse gigs. But now, as I say, I’ve plateaued, I’m old. I can say slightly critical things now. I don’t, I’m not on the Miriam Margulies genre. There’s slightly more, less out there in certain fields, but I still like.

I do like the freedom of telling it now.

Cathy (34:47.079)

Yeah, I can see that. So how long is Faulty Tower going to go on for?

So I’m in it from June to the middle of September. So it’s a summer run. They will continue to tour. I not, but who knows they might persuade me, but I have quip to do and well, I got to hurry. mean, I’m getting old. I’ve got to do the next thing. don’t know. I’m just because of being on the pilgrimage, which we didn’t.

I wanted to talk to you about that. So was an exploration of faith and what faith means to you. Is that right?

Yes, was that we were invited to do it because the expectation from the programme makers was that conversations about faith will be ready. You know, we’re not going to, we can’t discuss that, so there’s that. But being away for two weeks and the connection of laughing and making new friends, I made two young friends, Jane McInnes and Harry from Traitors. And I don’t think I’ve laughed that much. The three of us laughed a lot. Now, that’s quite surprising and that’s a lovely thing.

I don’t think it’s surprising at all because actually the act of walking, when you walk with someone, really makes your inhibitions lower. It’s actually a very clever format to get people to open up about themselves. Not that you need much encouragement, Helen, but…

Helen (36:03.22)

Yes, and to…

It’s just dumb me down. No, but it’s not often that people do say well Do you believe in a God and in which case, you know, what kind of God and where do we go and we die and Well, I’m throwing those away. Those are huge unanswerables in many ways but it was there was a kind of simplicity to just going there and not putting barriers up and maybe that taps into the kind of person I am where I’m happier when there aren’t barriers I get confused with social mores and

you know, having to do the right thing all the time. It can actually confuse and depress a person. So it was a, the pilgrimage was a lovely thing to do. Also I had to walk uphill a lot. I came back.

You describe yourself as a natural sitter.

Yes, I am. I get up to get a glass of wine and sit down again. I said it was, you know, an invitation comes in, you can say yes, you can say no, I mostly say yes. And then you had the joy of it. It was good.

Cathy (37:11.662)

Excellent. Good. And has it turned you into a walker now?

I put my boots on, I don’t walk enough, but I do walk. I learn my lines going around the park with my boots. Once you’ve started walking, you miss it when you don’t. Well, that’s what I found. Although I wouldn’t say I need to show me a mountain. I don’t need another mountain, but a park is fine.

So are you actively writing something else at the moment?

I can’t wait to try the next thing, which will probably be a novel. I want to do a TV thing. But the thing is, it’s all greedy, isn’t it? At the end of the day, the world has changed. Do they do this? Do they do that? There’s a film I want to make about my European background.

Yes, that’s really interesting.

Helen (38:00.974)

I’ve been allowed to do it again, you get this age, a lot in the book, going to meetings, begging commissioning editors to read your script. That doesn’t really interest me, so I think I’ll find other ways to get my work out there.

Well, you could self-publish it.

That’s it. You just got to communicate and go what, how to do it. Allow that, and you must find this being an initiator yourself. When you get those emails and they all start with something negative, you go, alas, I hate the use of the word alas in an email, please don’t use it. You know, alas, we’ve looked at, but on this, okay. You go, no, say something nice, say something positive. I think that’s so important. Positive, positive, positive.

sandwich. Have you heard of

Yeah. Yes, I don’t like the sad, negative emails. No.

Cathy (38:55.522)

Yeah, I I understand. Before you start on Fawlty Towers and all the very best of luck with that, and I’m very conscious of time. I know you have to crack on with your rehearsals and we will definitely make an effort to come and see you and your Fawlty Towers run.

It’s quite a quick show. I think we’re out at half nine, so one can just go to the pub. Perfect.

I might have to come with a girlfriend because my husband hates theatre, all kinds, but I would rather come with a girlfriend.

on that way.

We will knock on your green room door, how about that?

Helen (39:34.614)

I always have a glass of Hirondelle at the ready. great. You know, so a nice burst of kind of bright comedy, you know, that’s what it’ll be good. I think it’ll be good.

No, I’ll definitely also, we’re gonna put links in the YouTube links on some of your lovely comedy shorts, for example, The Girl at the Bar. We’ll put the links there and we’ll also put links to Quip and obviously to your books as well. And if there’s anything else you’d really like us to link, please let me know. And you don’t have to come up with it now, you can just tell me later.

No, that’s wonderful. No, thank you so much.

If there’s any way we can help you with QUIP, we would be more than… I’m always very keen on projects like that.

Okay fantastic well I’ll be back to you with frighteningly a few… You might regret saying that is all I can say because one needs… yeah I do need… I have a… we have the long list, have the short… long list in July, short list in September, winner event in November but there’s a lot in between so…

Cathy (40:25.043)

list of things I can do to help you.

Cathy (40:47.982)

Okay, brilliant. Well, it’s been so much fun talking to you. Thank you so much. And thank you for persevering through the technical issues, which obviously our listeners won’t have to worry about at all.

have had to see me whimpering is the internet on what’s going on? attractive at all. Yeah, we did it.

Anyway, good luck with Fawlty Towers. I will definitely come and see you because I love it. But I will bring a girlfriend.

Good plan. Okay, I’ll be in touch. Thank you. you. Put my glasses on again now and revert to my crazy life. Thank you.

All right, thanks so much.

Cathy (41:25.39)

Thank you. Good luck.